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Episode 4: Mom/Dad: If You're Mad At Life, Don't Be Mad At ME!

"Strict parents make sneaky kids." When kids WISH their parents would get a divorce instead of staying together "for the kids". When parents are jealous of their kids for the VERY opportunities they wanted to provide for them. How kids can have more compassion for their parents and help bring their parents' spark back.

Vanessa Baker  

Hey, you're listening to you'll understand when you're younger, where I talk to young adults about what it's like to be them. I'm Vanessa Baker, and I'm a parent and teenager mindset. And I'm a mom of five teenagers. My goal is to inspire adults to see teenagers and young adults as highly valuable members of society. I'm here to crush the mindset that teenagers are problematic. I'm so glad you're here right now listening. And I'll just kick it off. I've got my guest today, who you'll get to know as we go on in the hour. So hi, how are you today?


Guest  

Hi, I'm good. How are you?


Vanessa Baker  

I'm great. I'm so excited. I'm living for these interviews. I just can't even imagine like a day going by with not getting to do one now. So I'm just too excited, my head might explode, if you really want to know. So, um, okay. So let us let us get to know you a little What do people know you for? Like, they think of your name, they see your picture, they see you walk by, or see you on their feet or whatever. And they're like, ah, this kid's known for what,


Guest  

Um, I think for majority of my life, they've known me as like, the type A student, get straight A's, can never do with a thing wrong, and focus in her books, like a nerd and a smart, quiet girl. I think that's what most people in my school would say they know me as and like, just people that know me in general.


Vanessa Baker  

Right? I like it. So what do people who know you the best know about you then? That's like your person. I hear that thing people think. But then what's the truth? or What else?


Guest  

The truth is that Wendy makes mistakes. And..


Vanessa Baker  

What? Oh, I gotta go. Wait, hold up. No I'm just kidding. Tell me more.


Guest  

The.. yeah, the truth is, is I make mistakes. I am human just like you. And no, I'm not on some pedestal and, and living in some perfect world in which I can do no wrong. And everything has to go perfect in my life.


Vanessa Baker  

Right. Right. People think that but it's not true.


Guest  

Because.. Yeah, because they see my grades. They see all my all of my accomplishments, all my credentials, and they're just like, Oh, this person would never do such a thing.


Vanessa Baker  

Right? But you're just a human being. Yeah. And that's it. That's just like, refreshing. Because, you know, that is something even among my own children, one sibling who obviously knows another really well, one will have like, please will be like, please get DS and graduate. And then another one's like straight A's, all honors all AP, right? And they'll be like, Oh, he saw this, he saw that. I'm like, No, he's not. They just spent more time at it. And his brain might be wired, a little simpler than yours. But don't stereotype my kid. You know?


Guest  

Yeah.


Vanessa Baker  

I like that. So what do you like the most about yourself?


Guest  

What I like most about myself.. I think the fact that I've always had a huge heart. And like, even when people do me wrong, in any shape, form or manner, I always see the best in people. It's like, everyone can be telling me, this person is not good for you, or this person, you know, they're not contributing, like, in the, in a, in a good way to your life. So it's like, get rid of them. Like, why do you sue, you know, deal with them. And it's like, I am no person to judge. You know, everyone has their own battles. Everyone has their own demons. And it's like, if I want to give a person a second chance, a third chance, or, you know, a fifth chance, then that's on me, but it's like, I just cannot I don't hold grudges. I don't matter petty person. I'm not. You know, but I have learned, I have learned that like certain individuals, you have to keep your distance from them because they cannot respect your boundaries. But you have to like set them clear. Because you know.. but yeah like, overall, I'm a loving person. Yeah. So I think that's what I love the most about myself.


Vanessa Baker  

I love to hear that. It's so sweet. And I love I love to hear you talk about yourself like that. And I also hear your confidence. And I thought about it you said, you know, that's my problem. I'll sort it out. Like don't worry about me. You know, like, I can handle myself and even if I make a mistake, like, there's like, I can handle that shit too, right?


Guest  

Yeah.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah. I like that a lot.


Guest  

I've been in situations in which people have said something wrong to me or like, have done something wrong wrong to me. And there will be like, friends and like, people around me that are like, you go for that, like, you would allow something. And I'm just like, Look, I don't know if your audience believes in God or you know, I do, but basically, like, my whole mindset towards that, like, they will be judged by our Creator. So it's like, I am not him. So therefore, I cannot, you know, given their due, their due justice.


Vanessa Baker  

Right. No, I get that I get that. And, you know, like people.. I happen to call it God too. And, you know, like, I talked to so many clients, adults and teenagers, parents, non parents, people from actually all over the world I've gotten to work with and there are so many different ways to look at that higher power. And a lot of people call that thing God. And a lot of people go by the Bible, some people don't some people like church you don't. But what you're saying is incredibly wise, because it's just almost like, besides the the spiritual perspective that you're taking is great logic, like, it's not your problem, right?


Guest  

Yeah.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah, yeah, I like that a lot. You can just not worry about that. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yes, I love that. Who's the lady? I love her. Sweet something. Tabitha Brown, sweet Tabitha Brown, she goes "that's your business", right? And she's just like, like, doesn't worry about anybody else's stuff. Do what you want. That's your business. That's like, perfect. So Tabitha, and Wendy have that worked out? What would you say is your main source of support in your life?


Guest  

My main source of support? I think, to be honest, I don't know what could say like, I feel like I could say, I have a support in different areas. But a main like support system, I don't think I can, like, put it on one person or one particular thing


Vanessa Baker  

So the thing that you like, have different kind of like..


Guest  

Support systems for different reasons.


Vanessa Baker  

Different parts of your life. Yeah, I like that. That's clever, actually. Okay, so then let's do a little around the world view of your life. So like when it comes to life, life, like life stuff, that's more like on the, in the general way. Just day to day stuff, who would be your main source of support for that?


Guest  

Like day to day things as in like, just, I think it would be like mentors and teachers. And only a few, like only like three that I could really like, go to and I know that like, I won't be judged. And they will no matter like, whatever circumstance or situation I'm in, they just want the best for me.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah. Yes. I love the part where you said, you know, you won't be judged. Well, I love all of it, but that part.. Because tell me the opposite. What's it like when you go to someone who is a quote, trusted adult, you know, in that position in your life? And then you get the sense that they're judging you or they outright judge you. Tell me exactly. Like, you can give me a scenario if you want, or at least tell me the impact on you.


Guest  

Yeah, I think like, and that's why I was thinking like, okay, for the longest, I often considered family as a support system. But it was like, as I got older, it was like, Well, you know, I kind of felt like the black sheep, is what you could call it or the outcast is like, I don't really agree with a lot of the things you guys taught me or implemented in New York, you know, I don't, you know, I don't agree with it. And I just, and I can't go to you to like, talk about certain things. And it's like, I love you guys. But I don't really like you guys as people, you know.


Vanessa Baker  

Totally get that. Yeah, yeah. You're like, that's something that I've thought before. It's like, you're just not my people. And kind of like you said that thing about boundaries before. You don't have to hate them. You don't have to cut them out all the time. I mean, sometimes the boundaries have to be like the Wall of China huge tall walls, I get that. But sometimes.. Yeah, I really get that, they're just like the very people you're born to, you just are like, where did I come from?


Guest  

Yeah. So like in situations like that where it's like, why? Why is it that I have to be the one to kind of like, shine light on like, okay, these are the issues that you guys have in life. I don't know if anyone has told you guys this, but I don't go for that, you know?


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah, yeah, it sounds like you don't hold back. And so then when you're judged, when you need help, what does that feel like? And what does that do to the future of that relationship?


Guest  

As far as family is concerned? When I act like.. I think when it comes to family and I need help, I don't think they're the best in trying to help. It's kind of like, what do you what exactly do you need help in? You know, like, you have a roof over your head, you are financially stable, you, we feed you. And you know, what more possibly could a teenager like you have to deal with?


Vanessa Baker  

Wow. Yes, I hear that a lot. I hear that a lot. I get that. They're like, uhh, and please go on. Like, you've ever you're more than we had? Do you get that a lot? "You have so much more than we had. We've prepared so much for you, material wise, financial wise." Which is awesome, which is great. And you're more complex than that. True or false?


Guest  

Yes. True. Like, I required more things. Sometimes it's like, I don't even care about those things. Like take my phone away. Take every all the privilege, quote unquote, privilege, because it is a privilege to have take it all the way. I don't care. I don't need that. I want your help. I want your individual help to just listen and you know, give me support in the best way that you can.



Okay, define support. Like what would be..


Guest  

Support.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah, like, is this emotional support? And, like, tell me what it would sound like you say, I need this. And instead of them saying, well, I gave you that that not like you, you're like I need he not ecstasy. I'm like, but they're like, give you A, B, C and D. Why would you need e? So if you said I'd Yeah, I need but I didn't wanna say f because when you think of the F word like I'm running out of letters, yeah. Okay. So what would it be like if they're like, Okay, cool. Let's dig in. Would it be like if they were to, like, be very receptive, and I do ask for help, it would be like the world like, wow, like, okay, I can, like, for example, I've always been jealous of people that have like, a really close knit bond with their parents, like their best friends. And I'm just like, wow, I can I want that. But it's just not the way my family set up, you know? And so to receive, that would be like, that would mean the world to me. That would mean everything.  Yeah, I hear that. Yeah. What do you think is their main obstacle I can give you some I can make this a multiple choice to sort of, yeah. Do you think it's like, do you think it's ego? Do you think it's how they were raised? Do you think it's like a part of a particular culture, that they are a part of that you're then a part of? Is it, is it like, they're too busy?Like what is it?


Guest  

I think, is a mixture of everything, like if I were to break it down, like my parents migrated from Mexico, so they weren't born here and raised here.


Vanessa Baker  

Okay.


Guest  

Um, I think that's the first barrier they've had to overcome is the difference in culture, like, they grew up in rural and rural areas, and like, you know, in not the best living conditions, and they decided to, you know, migrate in and do better for themselves and their families. And I get that, I get it, and I and I get that adversity they've had to overcome. But I guess like, sometimes it's like, when I embrace the culture that I was brought up, and you know, I'm Mexican American. Yeah. is like, oftentimes is like, okay, you're, you're, you're veering off from your true culture. Sometimes people see it that way. Like, you're veering off from your true culture like, that is not you know, like, Oh, you, you wouldn't understand because you're privileged, you were born here.


Vanessa Baker  

Right. It's like a mark against you. Yet who the fuck moved you here? Or birthed you here?


Guest  

Yes! Yes. It's just like, what? Like you guys, I thought you guys wanted better for your families. So you you, you migrated here for such possibility. And when I'm benefiting from such, you know, thing, it's like, why are you using it against me?


Vanessa Baker  

Dang. Wow. That's so that's so frustrating. I can't even imagine you know, I do run into this. Tell me if this fits. I haven't thought about this for a while, but I had like this little cluster of clients. I guess they didn't know each other, it just happened all in a row. It occurred to me like you give your children so much because you want to, you choose to. These aren't brats. These are people who didn't even like, like, understand this, this started when they were babies, right? This provision that we're talking about right? And then the parent is actually like jealous to use your word earlier jealous of their own children in resentful that they weren't raised in the same way that they're raising their kid. And I'm like.. that kind of taints it doesn't it when you're actually like jealous. Is there any chance that your parents resent you for the, like you said, the possibilities that they've allowed? Or what do you mean, you know, created for you in your life?


Guest  

Yeah, I think if anything, I think the fact that I have such possibilities and like grew up with such culture, I'm very vocal about like, what I believe in what I think it's right and wrong. And, you know, even with even within my own household, like, I Wendy will put up a fight, Wendy will make sure you know exactly how she feels, because she will just, you know, I cannot allow myself and the thing is, I've had to be quiet a couple of times in the past, because, you know, they're there. They're the, the authority. So it's like, Okay, I have to, because you, you and do fact, deserve my respect, and I will not curse at you. But as I got older, it was like, Okay, I need you to listen to me. And if I may come as disrespectful, then so be it. But I need you to listen to me. And in doing so, and I'm being very vocal, and being independent as well, because I have like, I've just always been an independent soul. And like, I guess my parents kind of like, had something to do with that, like the way they like, you know, raised me.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah.


Guest  

So in a way, like, now that I'm older, and I like very vocal by my opinions and stuff like that, I feel like, in a way, they kind of like see it as like, dang, this kind of backfired on me. The fact that you know..


Vanessa Baker  

Right? Oh, dude, that's so smart. That's so smart. I tell this to parents a lot. Listen, you're gonna love this. I'm like, hold on. So you want your child who's standing up to you wanting to be heard. You actually want them to go be a spineless pushover, who's who's like manipulated and peer pressured? Because if they're going to be manipulated, and peer pressured, and not stand up for what they think or believe, or want or need in your home, how are they going to be married? How are they going to be as employees? How are they going to be when the boss says yeah, just like, let's run this money through here and some fraud, or you know what? I'm like, No, you want outspoken adults, but guess what? They start training when they're young. And of course, you we don't want middle fingers flying everywhere and screaming and yelling, but this kind of strength, that you are just blowing my mind and like, inspiring me. Like, I just love hearing about how you run, like how you operate. Like, that's what I want. That's what I want in a kid. Like that's what I want in the world. Like all Wendy's man, like, bring me more us. There's no one like you don't let me take that. But I feel a lot and that is what we need. Okay, so tell me what, what like overall matters the most to you in your whole life right now. You're about to finish high school, like, what, six months or something? What matters the most to you right now?


Guest  

I actually wanted to backtrack and like add that I wasn't always as vocal. It kind of like I reached, like, even with my own parents, like, because they were off the authority. I had to be quiet. And so when I finally got the chance of like, okay, no, this isn't working. So therefore, I must speak my mind. Because, you know, if this seems like the only solution, yeah, then that is when I had to do such a thing. But before that, you know, it was like, I am the adult. You don't know any better. You're a child. So therefore, you must be in a child's place. Oh, um, so yeah, I just I wanted to add that, like, I wasn't always this kind of person. I had to grow into this person, to fit my needs and to fit my desires, and..


Vanessa Baker  

That's an evolution. Yes. I love that. So let me ask you this, try to have a crystal ball to that question. Try to have a crystal ball. So like, you're always going to be their child. You're, you know, you're technically an adult as we speak. So like, when does that, like when do you get to shift and like sit at the grown up table and be respected? Is that like a never thing because they're always older than you and no more or what? How do you win?


Guest  

Um, I think if anything like, Okay, this past year has been very, a very a year of revelation. And so as a result, I've had a bump heads a lot with my parents. And I think as I got older, they kind of like been realizing, okay, what is getting older? I should I should be more lenient on her with this thing, and particularly, you know, certain areas of her life. But it was like, This year, I was just fighting tooth and nail of like, No, I'm like, you know, I'm ready to take responsibility. I'm soon going to enter the real world. And therefore, I want these things. And I'm going to fight to thin now. And so because I did, so they kind of like they knew that okay, Wendy is gonna put up a fight. She has put up a fight. So therefore, I'm just gonna let her be. I'm gonna let her do her. Because I just don't want to cause chaos and.. in the house.


Vanessa Baker  

Right. Yeah. And to be clear, I mean, I know, this is literally like, the first time I've ever talked to you before. And, and, but I can still tell, and I still believe and I'd like you to confirm or deny that you're not talking about like, bullshit, materialistic stuff you're talking about? Yeah, about reasonable rights. And you're being extended to, to, like a width. You know, link that Yeah. Or because you've proven yourself? Is this true or false?


Guest  

Yes. Yes, that is very true. Like, like I mentioned before, I was always a type A, yeah, type a student getting received the grades I've received in the awards I've given you like, my, my parents only ask was always do your work, your schoolwork, and that is your job. You know, as long as you got that down packed, right? You know, you, you can have the the the phone and the iPhone and the, you know, the air pods, and you know, the car and the, you can have these things. Mm hmm. And so it was like, okay, like, I've done that. But now it's like, you see me becoming a young adult. And, you know, my friends and my peers are doing these things, like they're going out to parties and coming home late, late at night. And you're complaining at the fact that I come home at 11. It was like, what, what did I do to give you such reasoning to not trust me? Or you know?


Vanessa Baker  

Okay yes, yes. And and what do they say to that? I have a theory on that. And I have a load of compassion about that as well. And I'd like and I'm not trying to be biased here as certainly who I am. But I also want to know, like, do you have a theory on why there? It sounds like overly protective in quotes like would that be one way to characterize them?


Guest  

Yes. I think that overly protective in certain areas of my life, like, I've always done extracurricular activities. So in a way, they would be like, okay, when he's always busy, so if she has to be at this place, like, you know, I was allowed to go to attend conferences and attend field trips and stuff like that, like when it pertained to school. As far as my personal life, they have been, like, protective, if that makes sense. Right. So it's like, my theory behind that is a cultural thing. I think. I'm like in Mexico, like most girls are even like, girls for my community. Most girls like end up pregnant at a certain age. My two sisters, my two older sisters are in fact, or were once in fact, teen moms themselves. Okay. So it was always like, I guess that's why they like emphasize school so much like, you stick to school and stick to the books.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah, like no boys.


Guest  

You know? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, boys. It was like so bad to where like, when I was younger, my.. I like, I used to play street soccer. And there weren't that many girls that wanted to play soccer. So I had to play with the girls and the boys that did. And I dad one saw me and he was like, What are you doing play with them? Like, get the fuck home. Like, you know? And I was just like why? Like I'm just playing soccer.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah.


Guest  

That was.. that was what I viewed in.. you know, when I was younger.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah. It's like, they put like a big net over like, like a, like a big blanket or a net or something over your life. Versus like, like the tweezers that might work better of like, let's pick out this and not do that. And this didn't work because we tried it. Like, wouldn't it be cool if it was more? I would like to say reasonable. Does that sound judgy? Like, I'm not saying oh, they're so unreasonable. But there's something about like taking the, like, adults get that. I mean, you'll see more and more. I know you call but but like you'll see adults like are able to negotiate and advocate for themselves and, and it I have no doubt that you're able to advocate for yourself. Do you At the same time, like, what would you want to say to parents like, versus that overarching like rulebook that smacks you across the head knocks you out? Like, what would be the alternative to that, that could also be helpful to a kid and help keep them out of trouble?


Guest  

I'm a firm believer that like strict parents make sneaky kids.


Vanessa Baker  

Yes!


Guest  

And I, I can testify to that, like, I will admit, I have lied, I have been I have, you know, turned off my location. Because another thing with the modern day parenting, they have your location. They're like, "where are you? Why are you here? Get home." You know? Like, I've turned off my location, I've lied to where I've been, I have, you know, hidden relationships even, right? Um, so what I would say if anything, like, like I mentioned before, is like, I have always dreamed of having that really close knit bond with my parents to where, you know, if I want to open up about my personal life and what I have going on, it's like, I would be, I could be able to do that. And so like if anything, I think the more a parent.. like as it pertains to each child, right? Like, I was never, I was never a problem maker. So it was like, I didn't do certain things or certain boundaries set on me.


Vanessa Baker  

Good, because it wasn't just one big blanket over you as a kid. It was like over all the children in the house. And you're being punished in some ways. Correct me if I'm wrong. For other people's quote, mistakes, right?


Guest  

Yeah. And, yeah, I think because of that, they became like, very scared. It's like, okay, this is our last chance to get it right.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah. Yeah, no pressure, baby.


Guest  

Yeah!


Vanessa Baker  

Right.


Guest  

And it's just like, Wendy's her own individual person. She, and if she were to make the same mistake, that is not like.. why do we, we put such a bad connotation on teenage pregnancy? I get it like it is, it is very hard. But, you know, the back in the day, they were getting pregnant at 17, 13, 14. Yeah. Like, they that is what they were dedicated to like having kids and being a housewife. Yeah, that was her sole duty to, to, to cater to her husband and her children. That was never me.


Vanessa Baker  

What do you think about that?


Guest  

I think that has never been me. I've never seen myself that way. I've always been alpha woman, like, I just can. I don't know. I just never dreamed of that being the life for me. Right. So I've always, I think and also because of my sisters being teen moms. I think that seeing them struggle. I was always like, No, okay, I need to find whatever way it is to like, have a better life than my parents could have provided me. And you know, and if that's what school then okay. Yeah, sticking through. And education is the key to you know, my success. So, yeah, I think.. I kinda lost my train of thought.


Vanessa Baker  

Would people.. no, no, it's fine, it's great. I mean, just pour it out. I love it. I love it. And I'm with you here. So what? Okay, so is education, what you would say matters the most, to you in your life right now? Or would you say that's just a means to an end? That's just getting you where you're going.


Guest  

I've always been a nerd at heart. So, school has always been a way for me to like, feed that, you know, nerdiness of me because like, since a child, I was always like, asking why, like, my parents would tell me something. I'm like, Whoa, why? Yeah, why? Yes. I was always questioning questioning their authority and in it, and I kind of had annoying like, they were telling me Shut up, like, shut up. Like, yeah, leave me alone. And I was like, Why?


Vanessa Baker  

I just want to butt in here. I relate to that so much. And I was very misunderstood. They was arguing or doubting or questioning, and they were authoritarian types. I was Yes, ma'am. No, sir. I was brought up in Texas where it's like Southern like, you know, and my parents aren't there from where I'm from, which is Arizona but but like, we moved there and so it was like, I don't know. Yes, ma'am. No, sir. And all for me, it was like, I'm dying. I'm ravenous. Like your word nerdy to understand like I'm hungry, starving, just like, desperate to understand how everything works. And why is how I learned and if you don't switch me and I just have to say, then I become Dumb, I guess because I'm just like, okay, whatever you say like, not me. I wish and I know my mom will listen to this and but it's like, I wish and she knows it's fine. Like, I wish that they would have been like, oh, let me tell you why. Let me explain why because of this. Yeah, I was thinking through and then I could be like, what did you think of this? And they'd be like, Oh no, that's interesting. Yeah, that, that, or no, I tried that or right like, wouldn't it be so cool if it wasn't like this, this like ego personal, like, attack for us to understand how the world works? The one we're supposed to function in?


Guest  

Yes. I totally, totally agree. Um, I think like, because of that, like, I've always been fond of just learning something new and any new every aspect of my life. So like, I was always like, a nerd, you know, in school, I've always I am the nerd still. And so it's like, I like school because of that, like, I was just learning. I don't know what it was, it was just, I just like learning.


Vanessa Baker  

So does that matter the most to you in your life? Or to something else? Like if I say that, like what matters the most to you and your whole life? What comes to mind?


Guest  

That honestly. Learning. Because I think learning, but from any and all aspects of my life, whether that's in my personal life, academics, and you know, there's always a lesson to be learned. Here your mistakes, failures. You're just always working. We're always trying to see what's, what's next and how to manage that.


Vanessa Baker  

That's great. That's how we.. that's what life is like, that's literally life for you. Yeah, the school thing, and I see how you, you just, I mean, like, nerd nerd is fine. But like, there's something more beautiful than that, like, you're just like, can we just call you brilliant? I mean, can we just call you like, like, you know, like, like, like, ravenous for what life is because like, it almost like, it almost simplifies it or makes it seem like it's strictly academic. And I'm not.. whatever use your word, it's so cute and all of that. But there's something like, that's very scalable about it. And it's not just like, Oh, I'm only intellectually intelligent, you know, but not emotionally or not spiritually, or whatever. But you're like, you're touching. You're, you're hitting all those bells, ding, ding, ding, like all. You know, I just want you to get that, and I want you to, I want you to hang on to that.


Guest  

I've always been taught to have like, an old soul. Or like, I'm very wise beyond my years. And it was just like, I don't, I don't know why, you know, I just, I just learned and I'm a visual learner. And, you know, I just learned through experiences through what I see here. And I kind of like, you know, interpreted to the best that I can. And just, I don't know, like, I even give advice to my friends that they're going through their own personal little teenage problems. And I'm like, I give them like some advice that other grown up adult would give them and they're just like, Oh,


Vanessa Baker  

I love that about your generation. I just want to say this. Your generation is, I don't remember this in mind, okay, like, I don't know, I'm 43. I don't.. maybe other people have different experiences. You know, I honestly don't know that. But I just want to say about your generation, the way that you guys come up underneath each other. And I want to say the word parent, really kind of like what you said, like, the way you show up for each other. It's like a family. And I see that in my own children's relationships. I see that in my daughter's freaking minecraft server. Things are tight, they love each other, they would do anything for each other. They send each other things they like Council and preach each for each other. And they are so real. True. And I just wanted I want you to know like, well, first of all, I respect it and I admire that a lot and I see it over and over without fail. So that's a thing that like I guess I want to be said loud and clear that you guys know how to be friends because Don't you hear? Oh, girl Mean Girls and everyone's so mean and bullies and cyber bullies. But there's this whole other thing that doesn't get talked about, which is the loyalty among your generation. Do you want to say anything about that?


Guest  

I think I want to add that like I think we're so we go so hard for our friends. And we love them like if they were our own family members like we were we came out of the same womb is because Many of us come from dysfunctional broken family. Yes. And it's like, in order to survive in this world, I need a close knit, you know, and unfortunately, my, the family that I was born into, you know, isn't always supportive. But you know, I can make my own and look out for my own. And you know, and that happens to be my friends.


Vanessa Baker  

You just gave me goosebumps. That's so touching and that's so valid. And I want to say something like, when parents do that thing, you mentioned it a little earlier. Like, they take away your phone, or they don't allow you to be social, like, I don't really think that parents understand that that power play.. and I want to call it. I'm gonna be bold here, like you, honey bunny, a cheap power play, when they yank the access to what is actually that child's lifeline, that child's family, that child's support system. And the irony is okay, whoa, I just got this shit. The irony is that the parents who do that, if they were able to be more vulnerable and more patient and like, slow down a little and understand what's actually going on, they would not have to resort to that power play. And then they would, ironically, be closer to their children. And their children wouldn't have that extreme reliance on their social network and their friends. Yeah, what parents so often call their phone. Yo, it may look like a phone, but that is a lifeline. True or false?


Guest  

Yeah. True. That is very, very true. I think. Yeah, many of us, like we grew up in a space of, you know, texting and like, we could get a response within seconds. We didn't have to wait by the phone and, and wait till the person answers me at this specific time. And, you know, we've proven that we can instantly connect with him for hours if we wanted to. So yes, I think for many, like I have a friend who has very like a lot of very close virtual friend. Yeah, she's never been in person. Right. But they are very, very close. And so I always found it. I always found it like a little bit strange, you know, like, okay, but I was like, that's, you know, that's a real thing, though.


Vanessa Baker  

It is. Yeah. It is. And it's so nice. And it okay, I love that. I love that perspective, where even someone in the same age group you would just be like, Yeah, but you never like hung out with them or went in a car with them. Or like, you know, you don't know them know them. But it's like, came around to realize you know what, that is? No different than like an old fashioned pen pal. Or, like, it's possible to make great connections. I learned from someone who has a really beautiful philosophy on parenting when I was a much you know, earlier in the game with parenting. Now I have a neat two year-old.


Guest  

Wait, can I just add that you said that you're 43. I was like, wow, I would have never.. like from the energy you were giving me, I would have never thought you were 43.


Vanessa Baker  

You thought I was like 92? No, cuz I'm so wise. No, just kidding. No, I hear you. I appreciate that. You know what, that's really funny. I get that a lot. People either think I'm drunk, which I don't even drink like that at all. Or they think I'm really immature or they think I'm like a lot younger and I've got wrinkles. I've actually got gray hair that I don't cover up because I love my gray hair, you know, and so here's what I narrow it down what I thought about this a lot because I get this a lot when they used to go in public, right? Cuz you know, the drive thru all that stuff. My wife and I both get it a lot together. It's because I'm childlike in my joy. I love my life. I'm unencumbered by bullshit. I have bad days and hard things and things. You know, I also suffer from depression and anxiety. And I happen to take medication for that. And I have for like 15 years. And I don't plan on going off and I go to therapy, you know, all the things. And at the same time, I just, I just.. I don't know, joy. It's joy that makes you a child. And I love it.


Guest  

Wow. That's very, that's very inspiring for me, honestly.


Vanessa Baker  

Really? Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. So anyway, I just like.. so the mom that I learned from back in the day. She was like, how could you just demote somebody and like invalidate someone because they're a quote, online friend? Online friends are friends, like, I want to go do a PSA for, like, do not reduce your child's friends to "those aren't real friends, those aren't real people" because they are like sometimes, especially during COVID, and pandemic and all this, like, those are the only people we've got, how can they be minimized? Aren't they, are they not humans? You know?


Guest  

I think if anything, like, I don't know, like with certain adults, like I think parents can be jealous of the fact that their kids have friends and they don't. That their kids socialize and they don't. It's like, look, if you're mad at life, don't be mad at me.


Vanessa Baker  

Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna title this episode. That's the title honey. That's so great. That's so great. You know what? That's so true. We.. Oh my God, you're so smart right now. You guys, you children, teenagers, young people call it whatever you want. You guys are the ultimate scapegoat for parents stress and not handling their business. That sounded uncompassionate I did not mean it that way, about the not handling their business, because there's so much business coming in that inbox all the time, as parents, you know, and the economy the way it is, and all of that, and I hear that. And it's like, go take a kickboxing class, bro. Right?


Guest  

Yeah it's like, why are.. you have some internal issues that you have not dealt with? Because maybe that's from your past generations or whatnot. But don't take it out on me. And I've truly had to learn that like something I cannot take personal that when I interact with certain adults, or even my parents, like, I've had to understand like they have, they're going through their own own journey, battling their own personal issues, that I should not take that personal, what they just said to me, or you know what they have going on.


Vanessa Baker  

That's right. That is very wise. There's that old soul speaking up. Absolutely. That's so true. And that is something that I am a really big voice about. I always say when I work with teenagers is that listen, like you know your dog, or your cat or your hamster, your fish, whatever. Like you know how much you love them. Like your parents love you that much times a trillion billion, you will never understand it. Even me when I was pregnant with my first child, you're now 18. Like, until I saw that little face. I feel like it took me up to that point to even start to understand the kind of love that parents have for their children that your parents have for you, that all parents, you know, I would like to say 99.9% of parents have for their children, whether they're adopted or, you know, however that family is, is created, right? And at the same time, like the compassion part comes in is like, I don't know, excuse mistreatment, right. And at this time, like, I honestly think parents are kind of misunderstood. They're just dealing with life. But they just seem so grouchy, and you think it's about you, unless you're you. But don't you think a lot of kids think it's their fault?


Guest  

Yes, I think because oftentimes, when you think of parents, they revolve their life around their children. So in a way it kind of like, as a child knowing that like, okay, my soul's the sole purpose of my parents, you know, to them, because they've told me like, I live for you, I work for you. You don't need anything because I can provide that for you. Hearing that can be very, in a way kind of like, makes you feel like wow, like so if I don't make them proud, then they have failed as a parent, and I'm just you know, the world feels heavy.


Vanessa Baker  

Right. Right. And what about their life? What did they sell out on? If they even started to get a life like in it? Like, if you talk you talked about your family? Did your mother have your oldest sibling as a younger person? Was she a teenager or pretty young when she had that first child?


Guest  

No, she was in fact 28, um, she had my sister and I don't know exactly. Maybe like, Yeah, she was 28. I don't know how that may have changed, you know, her life at that time..


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah I wonder. Did she start being her own person with her own life and her own interests and her own passions? Or was that somehow short circuited to where she doesn't even really know what it is to to like, be her own person who's not living for another person, even her children? What do you think?


Guest  

I think? I don't I think is a little both like, when I was younger, she said, my mom can sink somewhat, you know, like, she may need some work in there. But she can sing, she can sing. I was, unfortunately, I get this this gift, but she has to attend like she's a part of the church choir. So it was something we used to always go, I always go to her with to practice. And she was seeing on like Sunday service. And that was, I guess, an activity for her like, you know, as an outlet or something she was interested in. Okay, but that since then, like, mind you this was back when I was like four years old. So since then I have not seen her take an interest like such.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah, that's a perfect example. So would you, would you feel too much like, Oh, I'm the parent in this situation? Or would you feel like you would ever do something like, say, Mama, let's sing like, let's go sing. I want to hear you sing. I want to watch a video of you singing? Why don't you sing anymore? Like, do you think you could be a little pest? And kind of bring that joy back into her life? Like, what would that feel like, if you were to lead because you are clearly a leader. So, what would it be like if you were to lead in that way?


Guest  

I think.. I mean, there have been times where like, I remember like, for example, she used to always play the radio. And he's always played like old school music from like, you know, they're in Spanish, but like, the old school, and she would be cleaning. And now I kind of remember some of those lyrics. And I was like, you know, we'll be like, maybe in the living room and like, I start singing. And she's like, what, how do you know this? And how do you know that and I'm like, well, you know, I used to listen to it when, you know, you used to always play music cleaning up.


Vanessa Baker  

So it's a connecting thing. It's like a bonding thing. And she probably didn't even know that it wasn't impacting you or like, that you haven't noticed? And then it's like, ah, I love that. I wonder how many kids are out there teenagers, young adults who could actually kind of, like, bring that fire and, or at least a spark back into their parents life for things that they see that they've neglected in the name of parenting? Like, I love irony. I like Wish I could like study a degree. It's so but um, you know, what's the irony of that, like, who you lost your spark for allegedly right? made the excuse to lose your spark for your children? Is are the people who could bring your spark back? And know you can do all that hard work? But you could try? Is that interesting people like for you as a representative, you know, young adult here today? Like is that interesting to you to be that guy for your family? And for your mom or your dad?


Guest  

It is because like, like, I guess, parents don't realize that kids are observers. They, they see it all?


Vanessa Baker  

Oh yeah.


Guest  

And growing up, it was like, my parents, they themselves don't have the best relationship, you know, their marriage is kind of weird. So it's kind of like, they didn't expect me to one. Observe that and to take effect on it. Right? Cuz like, when I got older, I was like, Hey, you know, these things kind of affected me in these these ways. And they were like, how, how can such things affect you? How can my life affect you? And it's like, well, you know, trauma..


Vanessa Baker  

Right. Yeah, absolutely. That's so valid, that's so valid, and whether or not they can connect the dots. And, you know, oh, you might like this quote, um, I have a coach who I work with who I just like, just really need and how she helps me so much to think through things and helps challenge me and one thing that she said to me was that.. I don't know where she heard it. So I can't give an attribution right now, but people can only meet you as deeply as they've met themselves. Do you like that? You get what I mean? Like they can't get with you about something that they can't get with period. So even if they can't connect the dots and take personal responsibility and inventory about how this and that affected you, and they don't even have words for that, right? Like they don't that would not in their head, there's nothing there when when you go to that part in their brain. It's not because they're not smart. It's just they've never been taught that yet. Right? And you try to talk about it to them to get your closure or your your validation or your healing or your acknowledgement simple acknowledgement. Okay, so that was all kinds of crazy sentence there. But do with that knowing that they may never see it your way, can you still heal from that trauma? Can you still get complete with that trauma?


Guest  

I think I'm learning that now. Like I, like I mentioned before, this past year was very, very challenging for me. I grew up emotionally, physically, spiritually, mentally, I think and a lot of it has to do with family and dealing with like generational curses, generational trauma, and like, feeling like an outcast, like, okay, am I the only one, the only crazy one here that sees this, and no one else can just add an eye. So it was like, having to do with that, I think, like, I'm learning now, like, okay, like, your family, or your parents may not have the emotional capacity to understand, you know, what you're trying to get them to understand. Because they themselves haven't dealt with their own personal problems. And that, you know, they have their own childhood trauma and their own, you know, generational trauma they have to do with from the way they were brought up and unhealed wounds that they have.


Vanessa Baker  

Wow, that's compassionate. For you to even state that to, for you to even like, have that in you to like the the awareness to say those words. It just screams compassion, because, you know, they're hurting, and what they're doing, literally, like you're talking about God, like they know, not what they do, like, they don't know. Yeah, and if we don't have the capacity to communicate what they know, which is pretty much the same thing. Right?


Guest  

Yes. Like, and then like to add to like, bringing back that spark into them. I think like growing up, like growing up, like I was, I always thought like, why don't you Why are you guys together? Like, and they told me like, well, is to provide you a two parent household and it's like, No, I think you guys would thrive and be better off separate, because this is not working. You know? And it's like and and being separate. You guys can like find yourselves and seek the interest that you that you want. And, you know, just like, I don't know.. it was always something that I wanted to..


Vanessa Baker  

That's crazy. Like divorce is painful. And and most kids like, I mean, actually, I don't even want to say that. Like, you would think one would think and obviously parents would think that that would be like a worst, you know, plight ever for a child to deal with divorce. But then you're saying actually, you would welcome that if it was in their best interest because you're not if I'm wrong, but Dude, I feel like what you're saying is like you see them as individual humans, not this, like parental unit, and you want the best for them as individuals.


Guest  

Yeah.


Vanessa Baker  

Which is irony. This is like an irony themed episode here. Is what you would want them to see you as, right?


Guest  

Yeah. Cuz like, I've had, like from it was that I'm up and it was open to my middle school that my parents actually moved back in together before then. Like, it was just my two sisters, me and my mom, my dad would visit every now and then my two sisters have their own dad, they have the same dad, but you know, they he does not. He's not with my mom. And it was kind of like, that was our, the way we function that was kind of like my mom was a single mom, but she wasn't. Um, so it was like, I knew my parents were together, but just not living together. And then when we finally moved in together, I was like, why? You guys are doing better off separate. And I was like, but you know, I'm gonna let them figure it out on themselves. My mom would complain, like, your dad, is this your dad is that and I was telling her, well, you wanted to move in with him. Correct me if I'm wrong.


Vanessa Baker  

You need a two parent household. And I'm definitely.. I'm joking. But because like my.. Okay, I had a divorce. I got a divorce too. I came out when I was 38. And I got a divorce. And I had five kids the same ones. And they were from seven to 12 years old at that point, and it I was also a practicing Catholic and converted to be Catholic and I was never going to get a divorce and I literally have said those words to my children. I will never get a divorce. I knew I was gay when I was a teenager. I totally knew I was gay. And but it just seemed like yeah, anyway, moving on, like not a point, right? Just Ooh, that's whatever interesting about you. Right? But nothing to act upon, right? And so they each would tell you they would each tell you now they're ages almost 13 up to 18. And they would each tell you that it was such a good move, because they see us each happier, and they coped. And I gotta tell you this little story, I was sitting in the McDonald's drive thru with all five of them. And it just the news just broke, you know, like, not just as your mom gay, but now your parents are getting a divorce. And, you know, I kept being like, I'm so sorry. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry, guys. Oh, and putting you through so much. This is all on me. Right? I'm so sorry. And then at one point, the random McDonald's, McDonald's ad right here. I was just sitting in the drive thru, and I was sitting there and I clicked I go, You know what? I'm not gonna say I'm sorry, anymore. I am aware of that there's a massive impact on you guys. And that will be for the rest of your life. And I and I acknowledge that. And I do apologize for the impact. But me, I can't be sorry. Because what I'm doing I know is right for me. And what I'm modeling, and making this move, is what I want you to see, like, is allowed. You don't have to keep a promise to keep a promise if it's not.. if it's not, what authentic if it's not real for you anymore. And I'm sure a lot of people will be like, wow, marriage Catholic Jesus God. And I'm like "No." I'm not modeling being a fucking fraud to my children. Instead, I think every single one of them has written an essay about me in school about how brave I am. And I'm like, Yes, we brave like we are brave. That's how we roll in this family. So I hear you and it's so interesting. I've never had a conversation like this before, where where we've never talked to you. That's why we're you're like so, so brilliant about like, you know, what, do your thing. Just please be happy. I need happy parents, not married parents. Right?


Guest  

Yes, I need happy parents who, you know, are trying to heal and grow and as individuals, but I have maybe I have come to terms with the fact that like, maybe because they have their own unhealed issues. They kind of like see this dysfunction as like normal and comforting.


Vanessa Baker  

Normal. Yeah. Weird, right? Yes.


Guest  

So it's like.. like, for example, when I pointed out I'm like, okay, like, what, like, so what do you guys gonna do after I leave to college? Like, because I'm not going to be the mediator anymore. And I'm not going to be the middleman, you know. And I tell them that like to keep a route, and they just like, my mom was like, like, Did she just say that? And I'm like, Yes, I just said that. But it was when.. I tell them, it will no longer be a three person household, it will be a two person household and you guys haven't had the best track record of, you know, maintaining a healthy relationship. So it's like, what do you guys gonna do? Right? And my mom, her her to her argument is like, we this is how I think she says in Spanish is basically saying like, this is our thing. This is how, this is how we work. Right? And I'm like, no, I don't I don't think it's healthy like, I don't know. They've never.. mind you. I've never seen my parents kiss ever in the.. I can, I swear this on everything, I've never seen my parents kiss. Ever.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah, yeah. My parents got a divorce when I was an adult. They separated when I was 18. And then they got back together. And then they really got a divorce when I was like, I don't know, like, 30 or something. And I thought when the first separation happened when I was 18, that everything was fine, because they never fought. But then hindsight, I was like, they didn't just not fight. They didn't really talk and they didn't just not talk. They didn't really touch. And they didn't really you know, it was like dead. But I saw it as no drama. No fighting, no problem. Yeah, I was like, Oh, so it's like, it's good. To show like reality that it's not all peachy all the time. It's good to not avoid everything. But what we're modeled as kids, man, and marriage. Ooh, tell me something about your future. Do you think you'll get married and have kids someday even though I know you said you don't see yourself as like a housewife. But do you yourself procreating or adopting? What do you see for your future, family wise?


Guest  

So I remember at one point in my life, I was like, I will never have kids because kids is a huge, huge responsibility. I condemn those that have kids, and you know, devote themselves to just like providing the best to their children, you know, but I was like, I just can't because I'm like, okay, so like We mentioned spirituality. I'm a Pisces, and I feel like I just can't be tied down. Yeah, kind of spirit like, I will not be tamed. Like I will I flow with the water and that is who I am, you know. So it's like, I always saw children like a bad connotation. Like they slow you down, women already are paid less by men, you know, compared to men having a child or their soul, you know, they get maternal leave. But, you know, it's like having a child as a responsibility and that like a lifelong commitment, not just once they're 18. You know, they're on their own. It's a lifelong commitment, because you're always working. So it's like, I was like, No, I just cannot, in order to win in this game of life, I have to be this alpha woman. And..


Vanessa Baker  

I relate! I never, I totally relate. I'm laughing sorry to cut you off. I said that in college. Dude, I was studying business. I was like, I was like, Oh, yeah, first cover of the magazine is going to be at this age. Like, I've my whole life planned out, you know, rich and CEO shit. And like all this, no kids. Oh, I just had five. So what actually happened?


Guest  

But it wasn't until I got older that I was like, you know, having kids may not hurt. But then a friend actually told me this. And I never thought like, I've always like, I've always stuck with me. He was like, You believe in changing this world? Correct? And I was like, Yes, I do. He was like, so therefore, if you don't create kids and teach them your ways, then how do you expect our world to continue changing? And I was like, Oh, my God, you have a point like.. If I allow all these if I allow everyone else that isn't really benefiting to the best of this planet and in the future of human, the human race. And it's like, and they and they just keep having children and teaching their children their.. it's like, we will never..


Vanessa Baker  

You gotta fight back!


Guest  

Yeah! It's like, have your own kids and teach them correctly.


Vanessa Baker  

You'll be an amazing leader. I don't even.. I totally stopped myself. I I was like, most people are and I said right there, you'll be an amazing mother. But you know what parenting is? It's what you already are. It's leadership. It's a leader. And you are an amazing leader. And that is clear. And we didn't even have to talk about all of your accolades and accomplishments, which are linked the to have that be evident. And I actually really liked that like, like, I'm not secretive or anything, but but I also really liked that it's clear that you're a leader, without us reading your resume, and who you are, would still be who you are. Without that list of stuff. You hear that like you, like speaking of spirit, like your spirit is so strong. So wanting to be welcome. You know, how often? How often do you hear that, like you are important? You matter? I believe in you like how often do you hear that from somebody in your life out loud? Not assumptions of, but legit, like literal freaking language words.


Guest  

I think never I think most of the time is expected of like, okay, she did this, great. Thanks to us like, okay, that's normal for Wendy. But it's like, even for my own parents. It was like, I never heard of I am proud of you. And something I always always wanted. Like, Wendy, we are proud of you. You know what, like, you don't have to do all of these extracurricular things or all of these amazing things. But because of that, I am proud of you. It was always like, oh, that's just..


Vanessa Baker  

Yes! Whoa, that's so powerful. I swear, we are so similar. Wendy, because one thing I had an adult, like my dad and I had a talk one time when I was adult, and I was so much like you if you can relate to the word overachiever. Like that's how I showed up. Not not in high school. I didn't kick into college and honors college and, you know, first woman to be president of the Business College Council. And I was like, well, boy, all this stuff, right? And like, like, you know, our ballpark award and all this different stuff habit. And it was really cool. And I was just like, so just like, Where's my next goal to just like, chew up and spit out? Like, that's how I operated. And I said to my dad, I was like, Why do I feel like I'm running around and jumping up and down and like, setting myself on fire pretty much to get your attention.


Guest  

Just to even notice me! Yes. Yes! Just for you to notice me.


Vanessa Baker  

Yes! Yes! And you know what he fucking said? He's like, "I'm proud of you, even if you don't do that stuff," and I'm like, well, shit! I just like wasted a lot of energy, stressed myself out. Like forever. And he just loves me anyway? I'm like, well, could you have mentioned that? Because then I would have been able to chill the fuck out, man. Ah.


Guest  

But then.. Yeah, I agree, but then I realize it's a personal thing. It's like a personal want of like wanting more for yourself and being an overachiever, you know?


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah, I didn't have it like that I had it.. See, that's where you're evolved and good for literally what sarcastically, I literally think that I would have been like, I wonder if my dad will see this. I wonder if my dad will notice this. I wonder if my dad will think I'm as cool as he is. Because he is he died. Really, really cool. And yeah. So I like that you realize that this stuff is for you, by you. Because of you. You're benefiting. You're taking the time to learn from it. See, I was speeding by so fast that it was just like Check, check, check, check. And you're like living it like, you're going to teach someone about it someday versus proving something? Can I say that?


Guest  

Yeah, yeah. I, I definitely feel that.


Vanessa Baker  

I really like that a lot. So what do you want to be known for when you're long gone? Like, what's your legacy?


Guest  

Long gone.. Like, dead? like four years? Or like?


Vanessa Baker  

Whatever.. you could say.. You could say, Yeah, I guess some people are forgotten immediately. But like, what's like the mark or the imprint the impact that you want to leave on the world?


Guest  

I.. think I want to be known as like a pioneer. And whatever career or, you know, like, thing I decided to do in the future. I want to be known as like she was a first or not the first but like, she like a pioneer in in the way we now operate. You know?


Vanessa Baker  

Oh God, that's awesome! Yes. I think of myself too. We are we are so much alike. I think of myself as a trailblazer. I call it that. I also like pioneer a lot. But just like like, nothing was the same after we showed up.


Guest  

Mmm, yeah.


Vanessa Baker  

I love that. I love that you're doing that, you know, you're doing that just within your own family. Like I need that you're already that. And it's just going to be wherever you show up next, and next. And next. You're just going to do that some more over there. And over there. And over there. Like there's nowhere to get your.. you're the shit right now. You buy that?


Guest  

I.. wait, can you say that again? Do I What?


Vanessa Baker  

Do you buy that? Like do you do?


Guest  

Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, I can. I have that idea. And I can see that even now. Like, yeah, even within my own family, like I mentioned, like I was the black sheep. It was kind of like, I'm going to be the one to break the generational curses generation. And it stops here with me. And this will no longer be how we operate. You know? And like..


Vanessa Baker  

Yes. Oh my God it's killing me! I've got goosebumps, like, you're just like affecting my whole like, embodiment here. Like that's powerful. Maybe you should be like a preacher or something.


Guest  

I will admit being a pioneer is lonely. Breaking.. I've learned that like breaking barriers doesn't doesn't always mean that you won't get cut in the process. You will have to grow and bend and you know, cry and, you know, be lonely at times.


Vanessa Baker  

Yep. It's gonna be messy, and it's gonna be ugly. And if anybody listening, including you right now, has not yet read anything or watch anything of Brene Brown, she's very famous, under this point, Brene Brown, she has a thing on Netflix that I tell literally every single client to watch. It's called "a call to courage" and it's just on Netflix. And she's so funny. It's like a stand up show. But she's talking about her work. And she is a pioneer. And she talks about the reckoning and the mess of it all. And how like we literally have to be more resilient and more courageous and more vulnerable. And she ties together vulnerability with courage. The most courageous of us are able to fall down on our face 1000 times and get all bloody like the teddy roosevelt quote, you know, man in the arena, but I call it woman in the arena. Oh, we're gonna have to like we could talk forever. This is awesome. I absolutely just like and I feel so blessed. I am absolutely honored to have gotten to speak with you. And this conversation for just me and you just for me talking to just To you and only us to hearing and at this point is a really big deal to me like you've helped me see things about myself. And and you've inspired me and you've given me hope I'm talking about for my life not even for other young adults like not even, right, like, you've impacted me. I'm touched, I moved, like, damn. And then add to that I'm pitching this thing out on all the freakin platforms of podcasts and stuff. And other people are going to get to hear this. And my other guests that I've had so far, like, like, you have just amply confirmed that I am.. I am up to something.


Guest  

Yes.


Vanessa Baker  

Amazing.


Guest  

Most definitely.


Vanessa Baker  

Because you. Like, what are you? So, okay, thank you, that's all I'm trying to say really is just like, I want you just yourself, like I see you. And I also think you have a great handle on that. But I also would like to make one last request of you. Let's try this, okay, take it or leave it, I want to suggest don't call yourself, the black sheep or the outcast anymore. Let's think of something like really beautiful to call you. And, and I don't know what it is, but let's own something different. Does something come to your mind right away? Because I of course, get what you're saying intellectually, but there's just something about that just doesn't fit with the rest of you. Because you're fucking awesome. So..


Guest  

Thank you. Thank you so much.


Vanessa Baker  

You're welcome. You're welcome. How do you want to like identify yourself in relation to the family, not black sheep, or outcast or whatever?


Guest  

I mean, I've always seen myself as like a boss, like a go getter. You know, like the alpha woman, the, I don't know, like a bit like a name, the name?


Vanessa Baker  

Oh, I was just thinking how Beyonce has Sasha Fierce. But this is just you all the time. This isn't just you on stage. I don't know you think about it, though. And and I do want you to get that. Whoo. I think this is what I'm getting right now. Okay, listen to this. It's not who you are in relation to other people. Black Sheep is relative to all the other white sheep out past is relative to the what? In caste? Right? I know. That's stupid. But you know what I'm saying? Yeah, like, let's have you stand alone. Let's have everybody who's listening, like stand alone and not be something compared to something else. Does that sit with you? Well, like, do you see what I'm saying?


Guest  

Yes. Yes, I see what you're saying. Like basically, like, it's okay for you to like, not even fit into a category. It's just like, you're just your own person.


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah, what category? Yeah, yeah, let's throw out category.


Guest  

Like, I feel like that's really.. I feel like, Yes, because I've always wanted to talk to like, really hate stereotypes and that we judge people how like, he does try to box people like no, they're just their own individual person.


Vanessa Baker  

Yes! And then you were boxing yourself. You are.. even lowkey, you were boxing yourself in that. And and you can't do that around me. So sorry. You know me now. And that doesn't work. You don't get to do that anymore. Okay, I never wanted to hear that. I never want to hear you say that again. And I never want you to beat yourself up if you do, because maybe it's a habit. But I do want you to move past that, like today's the day that you don't relate to yourself that way anymore. You're just fucking perfect. And not because people think you're perfect. I'm saying because you are you. And I'm not just saying this about you right now, for anyone who's listening. This isn't because Oh, she's this and that. And she has straight A's and blah blahs, like, so unrelated to your metrics of life. This is because you're just a person.


Guest  

Hold on, Vanessa? I kind of lost you for a little second. You said, I'm not just saying this because I'm talking to you right now.


Vanessa Baker  

And it's not because you have all A's and it's not because of the metrics. It's not because of the measurable things that you've that you've accomplished in your life. It's because you're a person and exist. That's why you're perfect. Not because you did anything. You get that?


Guest  

Yeah. I get that. Honestly, thank you for this conversation.


Vanessa Baker  

You're welcome. What? I'm sorry, I was still gushing over you. Go on.


Guest  

I was gonna add, I was like, when I first like.. Ben, like our mutual friend or person, that mutual person that we know. Ben, when he first told me about this, I was like, a podcast? Me? Like why me? Of all people like, you know? But then I when I understood like the you're you're looking like what you're trying to do and like trying to get pierced. I understand I was like okay, that's understandable given everything I've gone through this year with my parents. So I was like okay, You know, I understand why he would present me to hurt. And so then it was like this conversation. In fact, I don't know, it kind of gave me more like of motivation to like, you know, when they don't allow all these stereotypes and titles hinder you and like, defined you like, yeah, you are the shit. You are that. You know?


Vanessa Baker  

Yeah, that's right. That's right. It's a, it's like, why not believe that and live into that. And just for the record, I didn't know anything about what you were dealing with about your parents, I just know a lot the way that our mutual friend talks about you because he's your mentor. And the way he he describes you in our sessions as I'm his coach. And like, he's my client and the way he talks about you and the way he wants to be a better mentor to you. And he uses our very valuable minutes to, to try to level up and like get through to you and inspire you more and more. That's all I knew about you. Oh, that's it. And that's why I wanted to do it. But I actually, I am so blessed that we had this conversation, and I'm glad it made a difference for you. And I just want you to know, you're making a difference for other people who are listening to this, you really, really have guaranteed. So thank you, the I professionally love you. I guess I can't say that. Yes, I can I can say whatever I want. I love you. I love who you are. I'm glad you're on this planet. And I am so so proud of you so proud of you. And if you ever need to hear that, you just have my number, okay? Just just be like, it's time. And I'll be like "I know what to do."


Guest  

Thank you.


Vanessa Baker  

You are so welcome.


Guest  

I will definitely keep in touch. I love it.


Vanessa Baker  

Good. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of, you'll understand when you're younger, I hope that you really, if you're a parent, I hope what you do is you take this, and you you listened to this episode or another one or all of them with your teenager. And I just challenge you to do that to bring that to the table and see what kind of conversations open up. And if you're a kid, I don't even care how old you are. If you have a parent. And this is the type of conversation you want to be able to share with your parent, please just do it, you can forward it to them. And it can open up conversations that may never have been able to take place before. And that's literally why I'm doing this. So don't hide this to yourself. Use it to healthy relationships. And I just I'm so thankful for who's listening. And if you need any more love, or advice or coaching or anything, you can go to my website, which is VBakermindset.com Thank you. I love you. Goodbye.

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